#113: A Heart Made Whole: An Interview with Christa Black Gifford [Podcast]

On this week’s episode, Melissa and I interview Christa Black, to talk about her journey of healing and her latest book, Heart Made Whole.

Christa Black Gifford is a dynamic worldwide speaker, worship leader and bestselling songwriter. She is a popular blogger, writes for The Huffington Post, and was the keynote for Women of Faith’s Revolve Tour.

Her life goal is to provide resources for those broken by the pain of life, leading them into wholeness of heart and intimacy with Jesus.  She’s married to the love of her life, Lucas Gifford. They live in Nashville, Tenn., with their son, Moses Grae Lionheart, a daughter in heaven, Luca Gold, and their newest addition, daughter, Birdie James.

Melissa and I share our thoughts about the interview and give you the chance to listen in yourself.

Christa’s Web Site

Christa Facebook

Christa Twitter: @christablackgif

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Heart Made Whole:Interview with Christa Black

Transcript

Mark: Welcome Christa to the show. Thanks for taking the time. We appreciate in mid-pregnancy and with all that’s probably going on in your life to take a few minutes and talk with us about your latest book. I know you wrote a book called, “God loves ugly”, which is available for purchase. It’s a book that you’ve written. Now, you have your latest book, “Heart Made Whole: Turning Your Unhealed Pain Into Your greatest Strength”. Could you share a little bit about why you wrote this book and what’s been the flow of mindset in you publishing this.

Christa: I’m not the type of person that writes because I’m an author and I’m supposed to. That probably drives my agent crazy. I have to be fully embodying and living something to where it’s seeping out of me. This is the kind of book that you never ever choose to write. It’s the kind of book that you don’t hope happens to you because it involves death, it involves tragedy. Two years ago, March in 2014, I gave birth really unexpectedly to a beautiful little girl. She was full term. Her name is Luca Gold. We were going to call her Goldie. She had a condition called anencephaly that I had never heard of before where her brain and the top of her skull didn’t form. She lived for 40 minutes in our arms and then she went on to be with Jesus.

My story with “God Loves Ugly” and my past, it’s very similar. The number one thing people told me when I wrote “God Loves Ugly” was “you’re writing my story”. I’m very transparent. I live completely vulnerably naked like Adam and Eve did. Before love, I realized you can never be free unless you expose everything so I just tell all my secrets. I have a great family, pastor’s kid. But my first memory of what it felt outside of the home was sexual. I spent my entire life as many people do with any kind of pain, it doesn’t have to be sexual abuse or abuse. It could be bullying. It could be not getting the affection you needed at home. It could be not understood and pain crashes into our hearts in so many ways. Just like anybody, I didn’t know what to do with that heart pain as a little girl. I stuffed it down and I kept on functioning. I hated my emotions. Hated them because my emotions pointed to weakness. They pointed to pain. They pointed to wounds.

The pain, if you think about a little girl, I was about 3 years old when I first was awakened sexually unwanted. When you think about that, the shame, you think of a little girl, 3, crying, beaten, bruised, with every reason to fear. I had valid reason to fear. I had valid reason to feel shame. I had valid reason to feel like I wasn’t worthy of love. What I did to that emotional side of my heart was, like a little girl, I downed and gagged it, said you are illegitimate, you mess up my life, all these feelings, these emotions, you mess me up. I’m going to bind and gag you and lock you in the trunk of my car so I can keep functioning, so I can keep going to school, keep playing with my friends, nobody will know that I’m damaged goods.

We do this a lot of times with heart pain es as Christians. Every time I scroll through Facebook, there’s another sermon of somebody saying, “deny your negative emotions”. I’m like, “what are you talking about? My negative emotion of fear and shame pointed to a very real wound that Jesus came to heal”. The negative emotion was absolutely legitimate and pointed to my need as a Savior. But me denying that fear or that shame, that’s called denial. Whatever you resist will persist.

When my daughter died in March 5th, 2014, I had lived decades where I had medicated my heart pain, I had drugs, alcohol, performance perfectionism, all of those things. Then, the Christian drug, which is food. Let’s just put away all the bad stuff but let’s have a pot luck and drown our sorrows. I knew how to medicate my heart pain. I knew when my daughter died and my heart naturally exploded into millions of pieces, I knew that that kind of pain, if I did not face it head one, had the ability to destroy my marriage, ruin my son, Moses, ruin my future children, send me back to addiction, to depression, to medicating, self-medicating. Instead of stuffing down that pain and pretending to be strong for my son, or just moving back into ministry and go, “God, ill just serve you you’re good.”

I went, “no.” My heart just went through a bomb blast. If I don’t learn to nurture and care for my heart the way Jesus does, the healer, the comforter, the redeemer, the restorer, these wounds will ruin the rest of my life because pain doesn’t go away on its own. It has to be felt, embraced and brought to a healer.

The book is a very in depth journey into the heart. The response I’m getting, it needs to have a warning label because I need to tell people you’re about to unearth everything in your heart that you have spent your whole life trying to hide. But all of those things that we try to ignore them and let’s just keep serving God and let’s keep functioning for Christ, all of those things means you will never get free.

The book is about understanding and deciphering your heart why did God give you a heart. Why did he place himself in the middle of your heart? It’s funny, people always tell me “I can’t hear God. I can’t feel Him.” I’m like, “Oh, that’s easy. That just means that you’re avoiding yourself.” Because he’s living in the center of your broken heart but you’re afraid of your pain. He’s not. When my daughter died, Jesus gave me so much permission to be angry. He was angry with me. I would punch him and punch him. He goes, “You need somebody to hit? Hit me, I can take it. I cannot take the full force of your anger. Where else would you want it to go than into the arms of love?” He can handle every emotion that’s coming out of us when it’s coming out of us.

The book is very… It’s going to be a bit controversial because I’m teaching the opposite of what a lot of pastors in churches are teaching about negative emotions. I’m teaching it actually to turn towards them and listen to your heart because those emotions are all pointing to wounds. When you run towards the wounds, you’ll find the connection to love and to healer and holy spirit that you always needed and wanted to actually heal the wounds so that then you can live free.

Living in Authenticity and Vulnerability

Mark: This is incredibly powerful. One of the things that Melissa and I both have just really appreciated in watching, and reading, and listening even to your podcast is the great depth of vulnerability that your carry. Can you tell us a little bit about what… I find that you are very vulnerable. It’s a great power. But a lot of people struggle with that. You growing up in ministry, I’m sure you understood that. What was the tipping point that gave you that courage to go, “You know what? I’m just going to let these things be seen. I’m going to reveal them for the sake of what it will do to touch people’s lives.”

Christa: I grew up in ministry so you don’t talk about on anything. You’ll lose your ministry platform. You’ll lose your church. The greatest that ever happened to me was hitting rock bottom. The kindness of God, I remember when God told me, “Christa, do you know that I’ll lead you into things that blow up in your face?” I’m like, “Wait, what? What do you mean?” Out of his love for me, all of those things in my heart that I was trying so hard to hide I always say get them out in the open because they will be exposed because he loves you that much. He loves you enough to let the pressure of life come around you. He doesn’t cause death. He doesn’t cause wrecks. He doesn’t cause the things that Jesus came to redeem. But he does allow frustrating circumstances to come and frustrating people to come expose the anger in your heart or the ugliness or the pornography addiction or the food addiction, whatever it is, it always comes out.

The first time that I ever exposed my ugly wounds was in rehab. I always say, everybody gush at some point, if you got stuff you’re trying to hide, rehab is so great because from my eating disorder, because we were all screwed up. We were all there for the same reason. There was no trying to hide this from the church or from my fellow students at college. We all knew why we were there and it felt so freeing to go, “we’re loving each other,” with the ugliness that we thought was never lovable. That was the moment that I realized, “Oh wow, freedom only comes with full transparency of everything.” Especially in marriage, you realize I can never be fully intimate with somebody unless I expose everything because you’ll never know if you’re fully-loved and love is the thing that heals all those wounds. I love transparency. I’d tell everything because it’s the only way that I get healed.

Moving Out of Being a Victim

Melissa: I hear you girl. I love that. We absolutely love that about you. I will tell you that, we’ve been listening to the podcast with you and your husband. It’s so powerful. Listening to the two of you go back and forth, you compliment each other beautifully. You have a beautiful flow. But there was something that really stuck out to me in episode 5. You guys talked a lot about not being a victim to other people’s choices or bad circumstances. You guys have had a lot of encounters with that. If you could, could you help our listeners just understand that a little bit more and what it looks like to now be a victim to circumstances.

Christa: Most of my life, number one, I lived as a victim of God. My Christian world view was that he’s sovereign and he’s all powerful which means everything that happened he willed into existence. He was almost this malevolent puppeteer just orchestrating tornadoes and wrecks and cancer and God’s going to bring some good out of it, Romans 8. I didn’t understand really, I didn’t understand his heart, his nature, and I lived as a victim in fear of what’s God going to do, like, if I’m not good enough, if I don’t serve enough or read my Bible enough or whatever. What’s he going to do? What’s he going to allow to happen to me?

The more that I dive into… I had amazing conversations. We’re really good friends with Paul Young. He wrote “The Shack”, and “Eve” and “Crossroads”. We would just sit down with him. He would blow our minds with eh nature of God and just the nature of love, what it means. For us to be made in the image of God means we have to be made in the image of love. Love always has a choice. In the garden, there had to be two trees. There had to be the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because Adam and Eve had to always have a choice whether or not to reject God. Otherwise, it would be a dictatorship and they wouldn’t be made in his image, or made in the image of God as little bitty co-creators with Christ, with God. We get to create our world. We get to create our hearts. This was what was so revolutionary to me to realize I am fully in control of my heart.

Bill Johnson, this is a quote that I have in the book and it just rocked my head. He said, “God is not in control. God is in charge.” If you’ve got kids, you know this to be true. I’m in charge of my home. I could say, “Moses”, my 4-year-old, “these are the rules. But if you do this, this is the consequence.” I will never be in control of my son because he has free will. For me, to realize every day I am not in control of these people’s choices. I’m not in control of… Just the other day, I was thinking about, I was picking up a peach and about to give it to my daughter, and I’m like, “Oh my gosh! I don’t even know the pesticides that have been on this peach.” To give to my infant and yet there’s child cancer like I’ve never seen before. We go, “God, why?” But look at our world, look at the decisions, the free will, the bad decisions of so many leaders, Monsanto, I’m like-

Melissa: I’m with you on that girl

Christa: All of that. We go, “God, why?” He’s going, “I had nothing to do with that.” The will of God, God didn’t will Adam and Eve to eat the fruit and be separated from him. He wasn’t like, “Yeah, orchestrated this. This is awesome.” No. He knew it was going to happen. My good God, my Father, my Creator of life had a black ops mission named Jesus Christ ready to get his kids back reconciled to heaven. Heaven means now. I don’t mean someday.

In Matthew, when Jesus says, “You want to know that will of God. He tell us when he says to pray, your Kingdom come, your will be done on Earth”, right now, in my body, my finances, my marriage, in me as it is in heaven, and that I am the conduit of that.

For me to be a victim of my circumstances put me in a very passive role. My prayers, they were so puny, God please. Please, as opposed to I’m the solution to the world’s problems. You put the Kingdom in me, Luke 7:21. I get to go help the orphans and widows. I get to fight injustice in government. The church, we’re supposed to be the ultimate government that stands up in prayer and releases heaven to Earth. We’re supposed to be the solution but most of us feel like we’re victims of God half the time. I live my life that way.

I don’t know if that fully answers your question.

Melissa: No, that was great.

Inviting God into Your Pain

Mark: It certainly does because there is a major shift that’s needing to take place amongst believers for moving from that passive victim posture into being overcomers and to really taking that position that you talk about. For people listening, what would you suggest to them as far as, when it comes to this pain issue of their heart and moving out of this victim posture, engaging in the healing process, how did you invite God into your pain and how do you encourage others to invite God into that pain?

Christa: When I look at the wisest guy on Earth other than Jesus, which was Solomon, Solomon talks about the heart more than anybody in scripture. Ten percent of all the Bible’s heart scriptures are in Proverbs and Ecclesiastes. Solomon goes off about the heart. Even in Proverbs 4:23 and saying, above all else. When the wisest guy in the world other than Christ, says above all else guard you heart, you better find out what your heart is. Most Christians are completely heart illiterate. I was. I didn’t even know what my heart was.

Melissa: Yeah. very true.

Christa: I hated it. It caused all sorts of problems. I’ve read Jeremiah 17, “Oh the heart is deceitful and hopelessly dark.” I’m like, “I knew it, I’m going to cut it off.” That verse was for unbelievers. That verse was for people who did not have the spirit of God living inside of their heart. Of course, that heart was hopelessly dark and deceitful. But we cut off our heart filled with the spirit of truth and say its deceitful. How in the world could my heart be deceitful with the holy spirit of the living God, the spirit of truth living on the inside of it?

We can’t hear God because we’re not trusting the counselor who lives on the inside of us. My husband and I, in 2013, our marriage was falling apart, it was great. It was awesome. People think, “Oh, I get married. It’s supposed to be kittens and sunshine. I’m a Christian. Everything’s supposed to be great.” I’m like, “Man, marriage is the ultimate fire. It is a mirror in front of you daily of all the junk that’s in you, that is not reconciled with love.

We were unearthing all of that on each other because if you just tape up an active geiser, it’ll turn into a volcano. We were volcanoing on each other, you’re five. We knew our broken hearts are going to destroy us. We’re not going to make it. It’s going to affect everything about our lives. It’s going to affect our kids. It’s going to affect everything.

I was in full-time ministry at the time. It’s crazy to me how if a pastor gets sick, they have no problem going to the doctor. But if the pastor’s a broken heart, they find it so shameful to go get heart help. It’s ridiculous. Every person on the planet has a broken heart. Every person needs inner healing, every person.

Luke and I, we made a drastic decision. We packed up our stuff, put it in the storage, and moved home to be around my family because my mom, she’s a therapist but she does this inner healing called, “Heart Sink”. We needed some serious heart ministry. We moved there to Texas, not what we wanted to do. We invest, people invest in cars. They invest in houses, vacations, things that do nothing to fix the quality of their life. Maybe pad it, comfort them for a second. But people do not put their treasure where their heart should be which is the most important place in the planet which is their heart, or broken heart.

Mark: Right. Amen to that.

Christa: Yeah. People are like, “I don’t want to spend money on that.” “What? You spend money every day on a $7 Starbucks that you’re going to pee out in two hours. You might as well start investing in the most important part of your life.

Mark: Agreed.

Christa: We moved to Texas. We started getting healing. It changed everything because I started… My first session with my mom, I’m screaming at Jesus telling him how much I hate him. It was awesome because he went, “Finally. Thank you for telling me what I already know. Now we can start an honest conversation.” People are so afraid to get honest with how they really feel. “Oh God, I can’t be mad at God.” Yeah, you are, and He knows it so you might as well get real about it.

We just made some drastic steps for inner healing. When Goldie died, I had the tools, I have been building internal capacity inside of me to where when death came and the hell acme against me I had so much heaven on the inside of me that it didn’t collapse my heart. It didn’t crush me like it would have in the past.

Practical Heart Connection

Melissa: Wow, that’s really beautiful. I’ve heard you mention several times on the podcast. We experienced this daily with people that we’re ministering to where they say, “I can’t feel God”. I can’t feel him. I just can’t feel him. There’s too much going on, I don’t know how to feel him. How would you tell somebody practically steps and some tools that would give them, right away, how can I start connecting my heart to him? I love how at the end of your podcast, you have beautiful ministry that you do over people, really beautiful. If you you could help people just understand some practical things that could help them get their heart connected to God again.

Christa: I want to teach the body of Christ how to meditate because I think that it’s a category that we’ve put into a scary new age zone and yet if you read the Psalms, on that law he meditates day and night. Meditation is all throughout scripture. It just means to ponder deeply or carefully, to go internally. For me, I release some guided meditation. There’s a couple on iTunes. I’ve got 4 more that I’m just waiting on iTunes to approve to get uploaded. It’s called Encounter with Christa Black Gifford. I made what I needed for me which every morning I put something on in my car. I close my eyes and I go somewhere. One of the lyrics to the first meditation is sink deep into the temple of your heart, the sanctuary made to meet with the divine.

You become aware of you, that place he meets with you is this heart inside of you. Our consciousness is so important because our consciousness is where we put our attention. Most of us don’t put our attention into our connection with holy spirit on the inside of us because we know our pains in there. We’ve cut it off. I do guided journey meditations which are just scripture. It’s just taking scripture and I read it because there’s no CDs out there like that that I can find where I’m able to close my eyes and actually see myself go in and connect. I give this story in the book. My grandfather, when I was younger, I was a little girl, he had a tornado shelter and it was the scariest, creepiest tornado shelter. Spiders, single light bulb, I would never go down there.

But if I held his hand, it wasn’t scary at all because I didn’t have to kill the spiders and I didn’t have to turn on the light. I always say, if you can learn to connect with the spirit portion of your heart that’s, 1st Corinthians 3:16, do you not know that you are the temple of the holy spirit? If you can learn to connect with that spirit portion of your heart first and start with the light, that light can cast out darkness. That light can cast out a lot of the trauma and the things that you’ve lived your life trying to hide. It’s not scary as long as you’re holding hands with the counselor, with the healer, with the redeemer.

I just teach people to connect first. I wish I could give you more tools than just this.

Melissa: No, that’s okay.

Christa: Yeah, it’s scripture. Meditate on it.

Mark: I found that making time daily for myself and being able to quiet my heart and being able to focus in. It’s true. We haven’t been taught the value of taking time for yourself, meditating, really soaking in. Most people, when you tell them that, it’s like you have 3 eyeballs. They’re like, “What are you even talking about?” They don’t know how to do it.

Christa: When I read my Bible, I pray, I worship, I’m like, that’s all pouring out. When do you sit and when do you connect? When you do you receive? Because you’re only able to give what it is that you first receive, 1st John 4:19. You better be stuck in first love enough before you start to worship. Otherwise, you’re not going to have much to give.

Living Heart Healthy with Others

Mark: Right. Absolutely. Thank you for sharing that and emphasizing that because it’s incredibly important that we anchor ourselves into that. I want to ask you, take a little bit of a turn, when you talk about family and friends and people that are going through a hard time for something that you’ve been through or things that we all face and go through, what are some of the advice that you would share about living in heart healthy manners in relationship when someone else is going through a painful time? I know that sometimes the dumbest things in the world can get said in these moments.

Then there’s those times where nothing is said and the silence is deafening to someone’s heart where they just made some kind of connection. What’s some advice on things that should be said not be said or just in general a mindset for that?

Christa: People usually, they don’t know what to say and so they say really dumb things. They don’t know what to say and they say nothing and that ends up hurting you. You’re alone. I always say the best hing that you can do for people who have lost someone, do not be the counselor, do not. Even last night, I was talking to my husband about something that was really hard for me and something. I’m walking through and it’s really like shameful and vulnerable. I was like, “Dave, this is still a struggle for me.” He came in as counselor and my walls instantly went up. I was like, “Hold on, I need comforter first so I can receive the counsel”.

Mark: That’s good that you were able to articulate that, to help steer in a good direction.

Christa: Yeah. I want you input but can you just hold me and say, “I’m so sorry that you’re walking through this”. I always say to people, be the comforter as much as you can. Be the comforter with a casserole. Be the comforter with flowers. Be the comforter with the text. “I’m so sorry for your loss. I don’t know what to say.” People, when they have the answers, they say really bad theology. No, they’re not angels. God does not take the best ones to be his angels. We’ll never be angels.

Melissa: Don’t get me started on that one. I mentioned that one in a past podcast. That’s the worse.

Christa: They don’t know what to say. God knew how many people would be healed and saved at her funeral that’s why I took her. That God should be put into prison because we would kill. If there is a father right now that killed one son so that the other son would go to prison, or the other son would go to heaven, those tactics would be put into prison. We’ve got a wrong fathering nature.

Just say, “I don’t what to do but can I sit with you in the rain? Can I share my umbrella with you? How can I help you? What can I do? I’m thinking about you today.” That’s it. Don’t be the counselor. Don’t start talking about the will of God. Maybe start talking about his nature, he’s comforter, I know he’s here for you. He’s redeemer. He’s healer. Talk about his nature, don’t talk about his will.

Melissa: Good. I love it.

Mark: That’s powerful. I think I find, I don’t know what you think but I find that people who’ve been able to access their own pain and process that out with God are often better prepared and equipped. When we give those goofy answers, it’s a sign that we haven’t authentically accessed our own pain.

Christa: I always say, the fixers, they want to fix you because they’re very uncomfortable with their own stuff that they’ve never dealt with. They’re like, “I got to fix you. God is good. Let’s just get on with it. Put a band aid over it. Let’s keep going”, because they haven’t dealt with their own pain. You can only deal with somebody’s pain at the level that you’ve actually dealt with your own.

Anchoring to the Goodness of God

Mark: Right. A question I have is when I’m thinking about the heart that you bring across, clearly, a major, major theme is bathing in the goodness of God and really having a deep connection and revelation to that. Have you found ways and mindsets that help anchor you to that so that you’re always keeping that as a deep reference?

Christa: Everything for me is visual. I think that God gave us an imagination for a purified purpose. We all use our imaginations every day for fictional disasters that are never going to happen. We might as well learn how to use our imagination to encounter the very living presence of God. Like this morning, I was reading in the passion translation which is my favorite translation, in John. He takes from the Greek and the Aramaic. I was reading this morning, let me see if I can find it. I’m driving but I’m going to stop. It’s terrible.

He says, “Now, out of his fullness”, this is the Christ, “out of his fullness, we are fulfilled. From him we receive grace heaped upon more grace.” I just close my eyes and went, “OK, out of his fullness I’m fulfilled.” I went into my heart and I saw Christ in my heart, the holy spirit in my heart, father in my heart. Then I saw me and Christ and I saw the holy spirit on me, I saw it. I love John 14 like, “I’m in him, and you’re in me. We’re like this tangled mess of the God. You can never be separated from God.

I visualized that in me. I go, “Wow, okay from his fullness, I am fulfilled.” Every desire that I could ever have has been fulfilled in the person of Christ. Desire means of the father. What are my desires today? I start talking to the holy spirit, to father about my desires. Oh my goodness! Everything has already been fulfilled in Christ. I see Jesus getting so excited about my desires as we’re co-venturing together, as I’m a co-creator with him, to create new things on the Earth. Every time I read the Bible, I always say, if you are reading the Bible and you’re not encountering the God of the Bible, just quit.

Satan has memorized more scripture than most Christians. That doesn’t mean anything. The living word. He is a really expression. Every time I read the test, I go into my mind, go into my heart and I see it. When you see yourself filled, I think a lot of times especially in worship, my biggest pet peeve is how many worship songs, we’re obeying God for things that he’s already promised us, that he’s already put in us. We’re talking about how he’s on the outside of us, and he’s crushing over us, and he’s all around us. All those things are true but hardly any songs are about the fullness that we begin with.

Can you imagine if we came into church starting worship from a place of total fullness? What would happen then? Most people start in lack, like we’ve got to jump around like the 450 prophets of Baal and ask the presence to come that’s not there. We’re starting in fullness. That’s a big way that I do it. Everything I do is very visual.

Melissa: I love it. As you were talking actually, it made me think of just my own mommy heart where you’re watching the news and you get so full of fear and doom and I forget sometimes, I get caught up in those thoughts, and I forget what the word has said. I forget to… the enemy just comes in and goes, “Be afraid of that, be afraid of that, be afraid of that”. My mind just goes wild and I forget to steer my thoughts. I have to be conscious to steer my heart, lead my heart, steer my thoughts towards him and create those good things that he’s done, put them in my thinking and kick all that other yucky stuff out. I know so many moms that’s just taking this on for size. Everything you laid out was just a really beautiful picture of what we need to be replacing and doing to conquer that stuff.

Christa: But the fear is real. That’s what I always say. The fear is real. Go, “I can’t get rid of my fear. Perfect love casts out fear.” Confess it. Go, “I’m fearful but I’m willing not to be”. If there is fear, that just means that the part of my heart that isn’t hooked up to perfect love. How do I hook back up to perfect love and let love do the heavy lifting?” How do I let love kick out the fear? Most people are like, “I will not be afraid”, well, you are. Let’s just start there.

Mark: Well said. Christa, we thank you so much for your time. We just want to affirm your heart and what you’re releasing to people. Thank you so much for your vulnerability and your willingness to not only process through your own pain but to release what God has shown you to so many people. I know so many are already getting blessed, more are going to be blessed. If you could just take a moment, if you could just tell our listeners where they can connect to you, where they can learn more about what you’re doing to help others on their journey to healing.

Christa: Everything is on social media. ChristaBlack.com. That’s Christ with an A, the color black.com then from there, you’ve got links to my Instagram, “Christa Black Gifford”, my Facebook page, Christa Black Gifford Official. I just camp out on those three.

Mark: Fantastic. Her book, “Heart Made Whole” is available today. We’ll put a link to that in the show notes. Make sure you get a copy of that and dive into the depth of the power of what God can do to working your heart in such a deep manner. Thank you Christa. Again, appreciate the time, God bless you so much. We just wish the best for you in this journey.

Christa: Thank you guys for having me. It was an honor.

Mark: Awesome.

Melissa: Thank you Christa. This was a blessing.

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Mark DeJesus has been equipping people in a full time capacity since 1995, serving in various roles, including, teaching people of all ages, communicating through music, authoring books, leading and mentoring. Mark's deepest love is his family; his wife Melissa, son Maximus and daughter Abigail. Mark is a teacher, author and mentor who uses many communication mediums, including the written word, a weekly radio podcast show and videos. His deepest call involves equipping people to live as overcomers. Through understanding inside out transformation, Mark's message involves getting to the root of issues that contribute to the breakdown of our relationships, our health and our day to day peace. He is passionately reaching his world with a transforming message of love, healing and freedom. Out of their own personal renewal, Mark and Melissa founded Turning Hearts Ministries, a ministry dedicated to inside out transformation. Mark also founded Transformed You, a communication platform for Mark’s teachings, writing and broadcasts that are designed to encourage people in their journey of transformation. Mark and Melissa currently live in Connecticut.

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